Original Raiders Jacket Observations...

Posted by Patterson from 63.104.29.91 on August 07, 2000 at 15:01:29:

I was able to examination an original jacket from Raiders over the weekend. I examined the jacket as well as the documents certifying its authenticity. I brought along a Wested jacket for comparison, though after owning three, I think I could have done this from memory. Peter even dropped me a hint as to an item I might look for to verify it was one of his. Based on all that I had before me, I believe that this was an authentic article.

So here goes…

For the most part, the items we’ve been debating made up the bulk of the differences:

1.The leather used was noticeably thicker then that on my Wested.

2.This particular jacket had rectangular rings 1 inch by ˝ inch, rather then the d-rings. They were painted black.

3.The straps were thicker and a bit wider. The thickness was due to the leather being three layers thick rather then two.

4.The straps were attached within the seam of the jacket, which runs a few inches from the hand warmer slit, i.e. they were not attached right next to the hand warmer slit as with my Wested. A reinforcing length of stitching ran approximately ź inch from the seam on the side towards the hand warmer slit. This stitching was through the outer jacket and through the part of the strap under the seam.

5.The rings were attached under the seam like the Wested, but were much more flush with the edge of the rear panel, i.e. they were barely visible unless the bi-swing pleat were opened.

6.Also, a very interesting thing was that the stitching for the ring attachment went through the rear panel. This could explain why sometimes it looks like the attachment is on the outside and sometimes on the inside.

7.The overall side strap attachment is slightly above the center of the hand warmer slit opening, NOT level with the bottom of the opening as with my Wested.

8.The length of the bi-swing pleat ran ˝ inch above the attachment of the ring attachment to the rear panel. As such, the bi-swing pleat on the Wested needs to be appropriately longer.

9.One big surprise – there were gussets under the arms! This explains a particular fit problem I’ve always had with the Wested, i.e. you cannot move your arms around much without the entire body of the jacket moving with you. The gussets would fix this. They were made up of two panels, each ž inch wide. Together they were shaped like an elongated eye. They serve as a kind of pleat under the arm to allow arm movement without affecting fit or how the jacket hangs. Very interesting.

10.The collar attachment to the storm flap was correct in basic configuration, but the Wested is off in scale. The storm flap on the original was 3/4 inch narrower, and the collar band was only ž inch wide vs. 1 1/8 on the Wested. Other then that the collar dimensions were dead-on. Sorry, but the collar band did attach to the top of the storm flap, creating the “cap” to the storm flap – some have disputed this, though I cannot recall who. The resulting collar sat more flat against the jacket.

11.The bi-swing pleat was 1 ˝ inches deep, vs. 1 inch on my Wested. The extra ˝ inch makes a big difference in the appearance of the pleat.

12.The seam under the sleeve was lined up perfectly with the seam across the back of the jacket.

13.The inside pocket was a simple leather-bound slit, not the more elaborate configuration of my Wested. Actually, I really do prefer the more elaborate setup, but that’s not the purpose here.

14.The lining was cotton – heavier then the cotton I have on my LC Wested. It was more like a lightweight denim-like material. The color was very close to my Wested’s, however.

15.The cargo pockets were dead-on.

16.The zipper was the cheap aluminum type, with several teeth missing.

17.The jacket had two tears – one on each elbow. Quite probably the reason it was set aside from the production.

18.The color was a very deep brown – almost black in indoor light. Under bright light it did have a very subtle reddish hue.

I have drawings and measurements in note form. I’ll put together some diagrams to try and clarify all this in the next few days.

Fun stuff!

-Patterson

Follow Ups:

Peter's reply... Patterson 17:05:19 8/07/2000 (1)
- Good job, Patterson Azuma 23:11:47 8/07/2000 (0)
Re: Original Raiders Jacket Observations... Satipo 16:27:21 8/07/2000 (0)
Great, thanks! (nm) Gregg 16:04:34 8/07/2000 (0)
Yippy, I can't wait to see! (nm) Fall Guy 15:13:17 8/07/2000 (1)
- Raiders jacket Chris King 16:14:26 8/07/2000 (0)

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: I was able to examination an original jacket from Raiders over the weekend.  I examined the jacket as well as the documents certifying its authenticity.  I brought along a Wested jacket for comparison, though after owning three, I think I could have done this from memory.  Peter even dropped me a hint as to an item I might look for to verify it was one of his.  Based on all that I had before me, I believe that this was an authentic article.

: So here goes…

: For the most part, the items we’ve been debating made up the bulk of the differences:

: 1.The leather used was noticeably thicker then that on my Wested.

: 2.This particular jacket had rectangular rings 1 inch by ˝ inch, rather then the d-rings.  They were painted black.

: 3.The straps were thicker and a bit wider.  The thickness was due to the leather being three layers thick rather then two.

: 4.The straps were attached within the seam of the jacket, which runs a few inches from the hand warmer slit, i.e. they were not attached right next to the hand warmer slit as with my Wested.  A reinforcing length of stitching ran approximately ź inch from the seam on the side towards the hand warmer slit.  This stitching was through the outer jacket and through the part of the strap under the seam.

: 5.The rings were attached under the seam like the Wested, but were much more flush with the edge of the rear panel, i.e. they were barely visible unless the bi-swing pleat were opened.

: 6.Also, a very interesting thing was that the stitching for the ring attachment went through the rear panel.  This could explain why sometimes it looks like the attachment is on the outside and sometimes on the inside.

: 7.The overall side strap attachment is slightly above the center of the hand warmer slit opening, NOT level with the bottom of the opening as with my Wested.

: 8.The length of the bi-swing pleat ran ˝ inch above the attachment of the ring attachment to the rear panel.  As such, the bi-swing pleat on the Wested needs to be appropriately longer.

: 9.One big surprise – there were gussets under the arms!  This explains a particular fit problem I’ve always had with the Wested, i.e. you cannot move your arms around much without the entire body of the jacket moving with you.  The gussets would fix this.  They were made up of two panels, each ž inch wide.  Together they were shaped like an elongated eye.  They serve as a kind of pleat under the arm to allow arm movement without affecting fit or how the jacket hangs.  Very interesting.

: 10.The collar attachment to the storm flap was correct in basic configuration, but the Wested is off in scale.  The storm flap on the original was 3/4 inch narrower, and the collar band was only ž inch wide vs. 1 1/8 on the Wested.  Other then that the collar dimensions were dead-on.  Sorry, but the collar band did attach to the top of the storm flap, creating the “cap” to the storm flap – some have disputed this, though I cannot recall who.  The resulting collar sat more flat against the jacket.

: 11.The bi-swing pleat was 1 ˝ inches deep, vs. 1 inch on my Wested.  The extra ˝ inch makes a big difference in the appearance of the pleat.

: 12.The seam under the sleeve was lined up perfectly with the seam across the back of the jacket.

: 13.The inside pocket was a simple leather-bound slit, not the more elaborate configuration of my Wested.  Actually, I really do prefer the more elaborate setup, but that’s not the purpose here.

: 14.The lining was cotton – heavier then the cotton I have on my LC Wested.  It was more like a lightweight denim-like material.  The color was very close to my Wested’s, however.

: 15.The cargo pockets were dead-on.

: 16.The zipper was the cheap aluminum type, with several teeth missing.

: 17.The jacket had two tears – one on each elbow.  Quite probably the reason it was set aside from the production.

: 18.The color was a very deep brown – almost black in indoor light.  Under bright light it did have a very subtle reddish hue.

: I have drawings and measurements in note form.  I’ll put together some diagrams to try and clarify all this in the next few days.

: Fun stuff!

: -Patterson

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