Very well said.

Posted by Michaelson from leospace047.utsi.edu on July 17, 2000 at 12:02:15:

In Reply to: Maybe something can be done about it... posted by Inbanana Jones on July 16, 2000 at 20:19:53:

It all starts with us, my friends. If they don't have a market to sell it to, they won't go through the effort to disassemble these treasures. Thanks to Micah for bringing this up, and to Inbanana Jones for saying this so well. High regards. Michaelson

: FIRST off, for more information, check out the following:

: US Information Agency news on pillaging, prosecution, and laws:
: e.usia.gov/education/culprop/

: Illicit Antiquities Research Centre at UCambridge (UK)newsletter:
: www.mcdonald.arch.cam.ac.uk/IARC/home.htm

: SECONDLY, the FBI, INTERPOL, US Customs, etc. have ongoing task forces dedicated to interrupting the flow of antiquities across international borders. Check out their websites (esp. INTERPOL) for more information.

: THIRDLY, people just like you and me, who have personal or professional interest in old things, are the targets of hucksters of dubious ethics trying to unload their stolen, looted, and/or "priceless" (in the scientific sense) objects. Their venues used to be auction houses and privately issued catalogues; now they sell on Ebay, Yahoo, and Amazon.com - type online auction sites.
: Check out the trade on eBay; just type in "Anasazi" at their search engine to see the stuff for sale by these scumbags.
: Almost invariably the material is listed as having come from "private land", and thus is claimed exempt from prosecution under the US ARPA (Archaeological Resources Protection Act) laws. But don't you believe it to be true in most, or even many cases.
: Pots, beads, and human remains come from US National Parks, Natl. Forests, and public lands all the time. Unfortunately, it's difficult to catch these bastards in the act of looting, and thus difficult to prosecute.
: Websites offering "arrowhead collections and collecting advice", and similar things undermine and exploit the public past and the public interest, regardless of what these people claim about "individual liberty", "constitutional rights", "salvage archaeology" or anything else.
: There is a middle ground between archaeology done for the greater good and the contributions to public welfare made by avocational or hobby archaeologists. But those who dig sites, "surface collect", or sell these objects amongst themselves for their own benefit are beyond any sympathy due those claiming "ignorance" of the law.

: Enough ranting. In sum, there IS something to do about it:
: write to the online auction sites and tell them (again, for they have a short memory) that supporting commerce of such cultural objects is unethical and potentially actionable, and that it is just plain WRONG;

: Refuse to participate, personally, in any such activities;

: Contact a local archaeological group, museum, or academic department to express concern and perhaps get involved in the past in a more substantive way;

: Write your representative, etc.;

: Spread the word and educate people (i.e. kids) that this sort of behavior is unacceptable;

: Care about preserving a disappearing past; regardless of factional claims, history and its knowledge belong to EVERYONE.

: Michaelson and others in this venue have periodically passed on info about this stuff and should be commended for caring to take a serious moment in this fun and fanciful forum. We come here because we recognize something valuable in Indy, no? Perhaps we recognize the importance of learning from the past to better our lives in the present, and to pass on a legacy to the future?
: This should be our goal in the world of cultural and traditional objects as well: protect, preserve, and pass on.
: Like Indy's dad said, this is, at its most fundamental, a war, a crusade even, against evil and ignorance.
: Maybe we're strangely dressed for knights, but that doesn't mean we cannot join the battle.

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: It all starts with us, my friends. If they don't have a market to sell it to, they won't go through the effort to disassemble these treasures. Thanks to Micah for bringing this up, and to Inbanana Jones for saying this so well. High regards. Michaelson

: 
: : FIRST off, for more information, check out the following:

: : US Information Agency news on pillaging, prosecution, and laws:
: : e.usia.gov/education/culprop/

: : Illicit Antiquities Research Centre at UCambridge (UK)newsletter:
: : www.mcdonald.arch.cam.ac.uk/IARC/home.htm

: : SECONDLY, the FBI, INTERPOL, US Customs, etc. have ongoing task forces dedicated to interrupting the flow of antiquities across international borders.  Check out their websites (esp. INTERPOL) for more information.

: : THIRDLY, people just like you and me, who have personal or professional interest in old things, are the targets of hucksters of dubious ethics trying to unload their stolen, looted, and/or "priceless" (in the scientific sense) objects.  Their venues used to be auction houses and privately issued catalogues; now they sell on Ebay, Yahoo, and Amazon.com - type online auction sites.  
: : Check out the trade on eBay; just type in "Anasazi" at their search engine to see the stuff for sale by these scumbags.
: : Almost invariably the material is listed as having come from "private land", and thus is claimed exempt from prosecution under the US ARPA (Archaeological Resources Protection Act) laws.  But don't you believe it to be true in most, or even many cases.  
: : Pots, beads, and human remains come from US National Parks, Natl. Forests, and public lands all the time.  Unfortunately, it's difficult to catch these bastards in the act of looting, and thus difficult to prosecute.
: : Websites offering "arrowhead collections and collecting advice", and similar things undermine and exploit the public past and the public interest, regardless of what these people claim about "individual liberty", "constitutional rights", "salvage archaeology" or anything else.
: : There is a middle ground between archaeology done for the greater good and the contributions to public welfare made by avocational or hobby archaeologists.  But those who dig sites, "surface collect", or sell these objects amongst themselves for their own benefit are beyond any sympathy due those claiming "ignorance" of the law.

: : Enough ranting.  In sum, there IS something to do about it:
: : write to the online auction sites and tell them (again, for they have a short memory) that supporting commerce of such cultural objects is unethical and potentially actionable, and that it is just plain WRONG;

: : Refuse to participate, personally, in any such activities;

: : Contact a local archaeological group, museum, or academic department to express concern and perhaps get involved in the past in a more substantive way;

: : Write your representative, etc.;

: : Spread the word and educate people (i.e. kids) that this sort of behavior is unacceptable;

: : Care about preserving a disappearing past; regardless of factional claims, history and its knowledge belong to EVERYONE.

: : Michaelson and others in this venue have periodically passed on info about this stuff and should be commended for caring to take a serious moment in this fun and fanciful forum.  We come here because we recognize something valuable in Indy, no?  Perhaps we recognize the importance of learning from the past to better our lives in the present, and to pass on a legacy to the future?  
: : This should be our goal in the world of cultural and traditional objects as well:  protect, preserve, and pass on.
: : Like Indy's dad said, this is, at its most fundamental, a war, a crusade even, against evil and ignorance.
: : Maybe we're strangely dressed for knights, but that doesn't mean we cannot join the battle.

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